Amir Bormand: [00:00:00] On this episode of the podcast I have with me Lauren Starr. She is an expert within the diversity equity inclusion space. We’re gonna be talking to her about building virtual inclusion within the workplace. She does a lot of work in the STEM and healthcare industry. I’m super excited to have you on and talk about this.
I think a lot of people will benefit. I am
Dr. Lauran Star: thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. Great. Absolutely.
Amir Bormand: Thank you. I guess let’s start at the top. Let’s have everybody know who you are and what your expertise lies and we’ll dive in from there.
Dr. Lauran Star: Sure. I am a workplace inclusion, diversity and equity psychologist.
Now, that doesn’t mean that I have a couch in my office. What it means is that I look at the organization as a whole and plug in diversity. Inclusion and equity, and I space those out because they’re three very different things with very [00:01:00] different outcomes. So I really focus on the organizational culture to drive that diversity in the workplace.
I work in healthcare and STEM predominantly. I’ve been doing this for about 20 years. I started my inclusion journey, gosh, before it was. And I will share that my inclusion journey actually started with Uncle Sam, the United States. Armed services. I was in the Army for 10 years and I’ve learned forced inclusion within the military.
So yeah. And that kind of brings it all up to
Amir Bormand: speed now. Awesome. And thank you for your service. I saw that you were a, I remember I seeing on your LinkedIn that you’re a trauma medic, so that has gotta be one heck of a role to fill. I’m sure that was a, that’s a whole different story, so Yeah, it is.
We’ll have to maybe have you back and give us some insights in terms of the transition to the workplace, but Sure. So I, I guess this episode we’re talking about. Virtual inclusion and how you build that. I know. We actually talked about the concept of, de and I [00:02:00] beforehand and I think we were talking about how we could be more tactical with some of the discussion and not some of the theoretical stuff.
And there are two components there. There is the, I guess you gotta separate out that the de and i out, because you have to understand how the inclusivity works there. And then also if you’re actually trying to, with intent. Build inclusion, especially in a workplace that’s a whole different focus. I guess let’s start with the de and I piece.
And I guess when we talk about that and we hear diversity alone doesn’t work. What does that actually mean?
Dr. Lauran Star: Diversity’s become a dirty word. We’ve been doing diversity in the workplace for 60 years and. Honestly, it amazes me when I meet in the C-suite or senior VPs and I’ll say, what do you think about diversity?
And they’re like, quota attainment. I’m like, no, that, that’s affirmative action. That’s not diversity. If your organization is putting out that we want X percentage of women in leadership or people of color [00:03:00] or disabilities or veterans, that’s affirmative action. That, that’s not diversity.
Diversity, to level set it. The value of diversity is different. The different perspectives and thoughts your employees bring to the table. That’s it. That’s the value of diversity right now. Yes, it does drive innovation, however, If you don’t have an inclusive workplace, and we’re seeing this more now than ever in part because of Covid, in part because hybrid and remote work, the virtual world is here.
It’s been with us, let’s be honest, it’s been with us for the last 15 years, but now we’re forced to jump in. If you don’t have the foundation of inclusion and simply put, inclusion is creating an organizational culture. You feel, your employees feel, they’re seeing, they’re h they’re heard, they can share their ideas openly.
Then no matter how much diversity you [00:04:00] have, if there’s no inclusion, you’ve got nothing. You have zero benefits. Yeah. So that kind of level sets it
Amir Bormand: Yeah. Go back. I want you actually, maybe there’s a specific, question I have and I’m curious because I hear this all the time. We do a lot of work.
Technology, recruiting. I hear diversity constantly. What I hear, the feedback I get is a non-Caucasian male. That is what we consider. That’s when we get approached by client. They’re like, we want diverse. They’re like, bring us candidates that are, that is not this person. I hear that and I go, is that really what your goal of diversity?
Because now after I heard you, mention affirmative of action, I’m like, are we confusing what the goal of this process? And
Dr. Lauran Star: not only that, we’re not only confusing what diversity is, but you’re creating a discrimination lawsuit with that one statement. See, because you can’t, yes, white [00:05:00] males were in the workplace first.
Now we see women and male ratios are starting to level out, but for a company to come out and say, we want diverse candidates, that means non, White male employees, that’s discrimination. Point blank. And you’re setting yourself up for failure because the goal of diversity is diverse.
Perspective of thought. Let me put it this way, for my sports fans out there that are tuning in here, do you think the Patriots on from New England? Go ahead. You can email me. All right. Do you think the Patriots, when looking for a wide receiver. Put out, Hey, let’s make sure whomever we bring on is diverse.
No. What are they saying? Bring on the best dang wide receiver we can possibly find because we won’t go to the Super Bowl. Why aren’t organizations doing that [00:06:00] same thing? We should be looking for the best of the best, the top of the talent pool first and foremost. And yes, I get it. We absolutely want diversity in the workforce.
I’m not saying poo to diversity. We want diversity in the workforce, but we wanna make sure that, we’re getting top talent first and that the organizational culture’s going to support that diverse candidate. So imagine in technology. You are a person of color, female person of color, perfect.
And you get hired by this technology company. You are the diverse city hire, right? Recruited in, and you get there and no one listens to you. In fact, no one could really care less about your, the minute you step your foot on the floor, it’s oh, or in the virtual space up, there’s our diversity. We got a woman and Right, and [00:07:00] she’s a person to call her.
That’s two boxes checked. Because trust me your employees are smart. They’re not gonna listen to her. What does she do? She’ll stay for two years, take the best of what you’ve got, and then she’ll go find a company that’s going to
Amir Bormand: value her. So the, there’s two questions that’ll come from that for me.
One is you deal with a lot of. Yes, we are getting more non males going into STEM programs. There’s a long lead time. We gotta go through an educational generation. We need more non males going into engineering schools, scientific, degrees coming out with the desire. There’s a long lead time to find that, to come to fruition.
To go, okay, there’s just more candidates leveling up and all that. So when you see that, and obviously you know, when you’re looking at companies who are thinking about diversity, Is the perspective of going diverse, wrong in the sense that we’re just looking for somebody that’s a different gender or different,[00:08:00] different back, like a different attribute that’s a physical distinguishing component of who they are.
Versus it might be that somebody’s coming to the table that’s diverse and uses said diversity of thought, which all of a sudden opens up your company to. Ideas that maybe before, even with the goal of diversity is still not being as open as you think
Dr. Lauran Star: now. Yeah. The, again, the goal of that diversity is different perspectives and Right, and that comes from our lived experiences.
And that helps us understand our clients, our end users. That’s the goal of diversity. But you’re right. School, right? We’re not. We’re not looking at, what is it, 23% of women are in STEM now, or the stem, employee base is 23% women. Okay, that makes sense because guess what in college is, it’s about 23% or enrollment.
Now, I take a step back and I go, okay, so you know, as a mom of twin girls, now my son [00:09:00] is a sophomore, he’s a mechatronic engineer. My twin girls are going to college next year. One of them is going chemical engineering. And they’re not going in it to be diverse. My daughter just loves it.
Like it’s her language. She gets it. You’re gonna have to wait four years to get your hands on her. And here’s the difference in thought, right? She doesn’t see chemical engineering as just plastics. She sees chemical engineering as tissue advancement, as, fuel, as the chemical engineering is much from her lens.
She’s going to make an impact based on her life, right? Her perceived life experience. So that’s what we’re looking for. But if we don’t have the numbers, we can’t demand that. It’s like coming up into New Hampshire and saying, we want diverse engineers. Diversity in New Hampshire is, do you own a gun?
And what flannel do you [00:10:00] wear? That’s diversity up here. We it’s a pretty white state and we don’t have the social structure that supports it, which is why this virtual now allows us to reach outside of New Hampshire. But again, if the company isn’t inclusive, if they’re not gonna support that diverse candidate, Then the diverse candidate’s going to leave.
And Amir, I have to ask this. W why is it just gender that we consider diversity? I have three disabilities. I’m a veteran. I am more than a woman going into stem. My lived experience is pretty dynamic. And extremely diverse from everybody else. Just as your background is very diverse from mine, right?
We’re already fairly diverse in full spectrum. Everybody’s unique. Everybody has a different lived experience [00:11:00] and a different perspective. Now we’re saying, okay, let’s look at those protected classes and make sure that we are diversifying the workforce because our end users are becoming.
More and more diverse. Our end users are now veterans. Do you have veterans? Is there a, is there an initiative to both veterans in what about disabilities? Do you, is there an initiative in your organization that, that’s looking at those with disabilities because your end users have disabilities, right?
There’s a huge campaign right now about it. Accessibility. And if you are not hiring individuals that have a disability, you’re missing the boat cuz you’re not going to understand that lived experience. So it’s not
Amir Bormand: just gender. Let me ask you this. I agree. I think every background brings a different viewpoint and when you’re looking at, in inclusivity, and maybe, you obviously [00:12:00] mentioned diversity of thoughts, so I think everyone understands.
You need the diversity piece that, that diversity of thought when it comes to inclusivity and let’s just take you and I, for example, you, we have two different backgrounds. I have a very diverse background. I’ve, I’m a technologist who owns a recruiting company. It’s not very common. You’re a military veteran within the D n I space with a ton of experience and a PhD as an expert.
So you have a different back. If we were to collaborate on a project together, There would be this I know this whole storming norm and conforming dynamic that exists with people work together. But there’s this ability, if somebody was to put us together to be able to make sure that we’re both, that we can express thoughts, we can be vulnerable with thoughts, we can share ideas, not worry about judgment.
And when I hear inclusivity, To me, it’s such a complicated thing. We’re gonna, I think, get into the virtual component next, but before we get there, when we’re talking about inclusivity, w [00:13:00] what are, what has to happen? What are we trying to nurture? What conversations are we trying to allow to happen so that people can feel inclusive?
Dr. Lauran Star: Yeah. I think and I take this lesson from the Army, right? I didn’t get to pick who my battle buddy. They just paired me up with some, and sometimes that battle buddy would change on the dime depending on where I was. South America, the Gulf didn’t matter, right? It would change up. And they didn’t say, okay, now you’ve got you’ve got a week to form Storm and Norm.
No, you are new are from the get-go. So that’s why it’s really important that we have, knowledge and skills first and foremost, quality first, and for. Because I know jumping outta that plane, my battle buddy, whomever that person is, whatever their gender is, their language, their ethnicity, doesn’t matter their experience.
We both have the same [00:14:00] high quality in jumping out of that plane. And then from there we’re quickly, but because we both have that same high quality, we’re able to quickly see strengths and air and holes. Such as, right when I’m paired up with a male, I am never going to have the same upper body strength.
Now, I have never had to ask my battle buddy to carry something for me. They just did it intuitively. There was no judgment. I got a 275 pound guy having a heart attack. I’m stronger on the C CPR than he is. Yeah I didn’t have to lift the stretch. Magically five guys appeared and lifted the stretcher and put ’em in my wagon.
It’s right. That’s inclusion. That’s going okay. There’s our medic, but we’ve gotta lift the stretcher so she can save his life. It’s playing to our strengths. And that’s the same in the workplace. And you would think it’s [00:15:00] complicated, but it really isn’t. It’s getting to know and we in the workplace, We get time to figure out who each other are.
One thing in the military where I know where my gaps are, I’m like, Hey, you know what? I’m not detail focused. I’m your medic. I like, don’t give me a map. I am medical hardcore. I can figure out all those calculations in my brain. These are my strengths, these are my weaknesses or areas for development, whatever you wanna call them.
And the person next to me, my battle buddy, would be like, okay, my strengths are these. These are my weaknesses. All of a sudden now we both have an inventory of skills. That’s double what we had to start with. Do you think
Amir Bormand: that’s easier, in the military, because they’re the it’s forced the Yeah it’s forced, but also everyone comes in at a not every, most people come in at a certain level and people are given.
Skills along the way. And there’s a certain, process that will get you a certain point, and that’s you’d hope it’s merit based, that [00:16:00] if you’re not proficient, you’re not just hit dance, but the process is so defined and so rigid and it’s so understood that there’s a little bit of comfort knowing that the person to the left E view has X skilled, they’re good at this, and there’s that builtin forced inclusivity that they foster.
Versus a private, organization or well public organization where you justly don’t know where the person’s background is. You’re assuming that the hiring committee or the team made all the right decisions, but yet, hey, this person next to you now virtually, you gotta trust them to be able to deliver, execute.
So it’s a little bit different, and I guess when you look at some of what you’re saying, I’m listening to it going some of, I guess maybe the challenges around feeling comfortable around inclusion could. You know the team you’re on, there’s other attributes of why you don’t feel as close.
Not that it’s forced or not, but there’s you don’t know the other person as well. And especially virtually, we barely get to meet [00:17:00] anybody. We get a few minutes and we’re basically asked to go do the job with that person.
Dr. Lauran Star: I think this is where inclusion falls short in the workplace.
And I hear what you’re saying, right? You we’re all expected to have the same skill level, but let’s be. During basic training, I learned how to work a radio and I learned how to call in a medevac. You never want me on the radio or the medevac. It is not like I’m just, I it, yeah. I’m afraid of it, I’m afraid of, and it’s just a stupid little box, but it’s a lifesaving box. I’m afraid of that, and anyone that I’ve ever been parted up with knows that you don’t want her on the mic. She just doesn’t work. Okay. I can read an EKG with my eyes closed, but yet other medics can’t. Right? They didn’t pay attention there, so it’s just like going to college, right?
When we go to college, when we come out and engineer, your engineers are expected to have a certain skill level, but it doesn’t mean they’re phenomenal in every bucket. Those [00:18:00] are your strengths, the difference between the military and the workplace. In the military, we talk. In the workplace, we’re afraid to share where our weaknesses are.
So one of the things I love doing, and even with the company that I’m working with right now, when we have our virtual team meetings, we always have an icebreaker. Every flip in team meeting, there’s an ice breaker and it’s unique and we all take turns doing that icebreaker. Some of them are are fun and some of them are very skills-based.
If there’s one skill you’d like to improve, what. Now you know who’s really good at what, right? If there’s one skill you don’t have to improve, what is it like, what is the skill that you’re most proud of in the job function? You just did what we do in the military, right? Boots on ground. What are you good at?
Where do you, where are you gonna be challenged? This is where I’m good. This is where I’m gonna be challenged. And then you’re problem solving in that moment. [00:19:00] And you’ll see in the virtual, I watch people write, like taking notes on an icebreaker. Like we’re taking, oh, what we’re doing is we’re building a competency list and who’s got that competency?
Amir Bormand: Do you want the manager there? Is, I guess in that case we’re, obviously, ev every meeting has a, icebreaker. And again, it could be. The meeting is to actually get to know your team. Cuz obviously we’re all remote in many cases, not all cases, but do you sometimes want the manager not there, or the person who’s in charge to allow people to be a little bit more comfortable in, in, in feeling vulnerable with the with other colleagues?
Is that a, is that what you want or you’re like, Hey listen, you have to work with your manager. You
Dr. Lauran Star: have to work with your manager, you have to work with your manager, you have to work with your leader. They have to be part of your team and. They need to know what you’re sharing, right? Because if I’m a manager, I want to know where my people need to develop.[00:20:00]
I also have to be vulnerable though. So my years as a manager and we would have phone calls instead of virtual. I was in sales and we’d have phone calls, right? The monthly or the weekly Monday morning, 9:00 AM phone call, conference call, where are my weaknesses? I’m horrible at details to find your details.
So I’ve decided that I’m going to make doing the expense reports a developmental activity, who wants to do it? And now not only am I developing my employees, but I’m being vulnerable, letting them know that I too have weaknesses, I too have areas I need to work on, and now I’m part of something bigger.
Not only am I leading this team, I’m included in the team.
Amir Bormand: Do you have to, I guess when you’re, when you’re running these meetings and you’re trying to build this sense of inclusivity, [00:21:00] typically, the manager becomes the main facilitator and everyone answers the questions.
Is that a part of allowing for that inclusivity? Is that the way we should be doing it or, why
Dr. Lauran Star: you should be rotating? Who’s facilitating the meeting? You should allow for different ideas to come up, right? I think you right in this virtual world right now, right? If I were to step into a management or leadership position where I have a team, the first thing I would do is actually our first meeting have a nice breaker about who are you.
You all have, three fun-filled facts, or two truths and a lie, whatever just to break the ice. Then I would spend the entire meeting talking about inclusion. Hey, you know what part of my management leadership style is I want my team to be very inclusive of each other, and this is what inclusion means to me and the organization, and these are the benefits.
To the organization, to myself. What do you [00:22:00] think the benefits of inclusion are to you? And then you pose that question, how do we build inclusion? How do we tackle this? I want everybody’s buy-in on this
Amir Bormand: And I guess I I’m assuming and correct me, but I’m thinking if I have a new employee, this is a great way.
Getting them involved. It’s a good way of talking so they can hear everybody else. Is this something we’re doing just on new hire? Because I guess we’re talking, to take a step back, we’re talking about, virtual workplace inclusivity. Obviously if your team feels inclusive it grows out.
You wanna foster that, as having multiple teams feel con inclusive. And we could maybe talk about how that happens. Like you’re talking about, Hey, let’s have the icebreaker rotating facilitators, do this assessment. Is this a once in a while thing on a new hire basis?
Like what’s the frequency of, we don’t wanna do every meeting, I’m assuming, like
Dr. Lauran Star: you should. No, you should be doing this. Again, inclusion is a journey and we’re constantly moving forward and Right. [00:23:00] Say I’m taking over a team, I’m the new hire. Or I’m a sitting manager. I am one of the managers in it right now going, huh, this is really interesting.
You can do this at your next call guys. I wanna reset for 2023, and I want us to be inclusive, right? Before we’re diverse. I want us to be inclusive. I want us to function as a team. Inclusion means that everybody should feel comfortable here to share their voice. Everybody here should be able to show up to.
As they are as a person. That does not mean show up without a shirt on. Show up professionally. You gotta be careful. You never know. I want us to rely on each other and by doing this, here’s what it means. It means that if we have an inclusive team, we’re gonna be a lot more productive.
We’re gonna be much happier in our job because we’re gonna be connected. It can be so lonely in a virtual environ. That’s the prong of that [00:24:00] inclusion is now we’re creating that sense of belonging to your team and the organization.
Amir Bormand: If you were to go back and think about the organization and obviously the gold organization, let’s say it’s a software company, they want inclusivity and at one level, There’s organizational inclusivity.
Obviously we’re all working for the same company, getting the paycheck and showing up the job has a common ground, but obviously it’s difficult because all these different level. We have people in marketing, people in finance, the software engineering team, management team It seems very challenging to find the commonality there.
I’m sure that’s doable. That’s where employer brain comes in and all that kind of stuff. Employee experience. But then what I’m hearing is yes, there’s also, you have to get a little bit more granular. You gotta get to the boots on the ground, build more micro innclusive inclusivity so that people at that intimate level can get to know each other.
Cuz it is hard if you’re working for a 500,000 person [00:25:00] company, inclusivity at the organizational level. To me it seems like it’s way more employer brand. Understanding awareness versus inclusivity trickles all the way down to the team and who I work with. Cuz if I feel inclusive there, obviously, multiple teams feeling inclusive, then there’s a greater sense of absolutely of
Dr. Lauran Star: that brand.
So inclusion has to come from the top. Okay, first and foremost, inclusion’s gotta come from the C-Suite and your C-suite has, they have to believe. They have to live it, right? They have to want it. They have to understand the business benefit. And if you’re focusing in on diversity, you’re gonna miss the boat.
All you’re gonna do is create that revolving door in hiring practices, right? You focus in on inclusion and building up that culture and then trickle it down. But the beautiful about the beautiful point about inclusion is that it inclusion is driven by one person at a time. [00:26:00] So while leadership has to lead it, it’s your granular boots on the ground, employees that drive
Amir Bormand: it.
I think that’s great. And I think, I hear a lot of times founders of startups talk about how early on they know everybody on the team. They’re involved, they’re in the trenches. They know the first 20 hires, 30 hires, and. You follow up with them and they hit 150, 200 people and they say I feel disconnected from the company.
I know my managers, I have that management layer, but yet obviously they have a passion for that company that’s as great as anybody else. It’s their name’s on the paperwork, right? How could they not? If you’re looking at that and you’re like, okay, you’re a startup, you’re growing, you’re hypergrowth, you’re gonna 3, 4, 5 x headcount very quickly.
If you’re a founder, knowing that you’re gonna have that disconnect, that distance is gonna increase between every single employee. What fundamentals do you put in place? Even though you might not know everybody’s names, [00:27:00] you still have that si same sense of your inclusivity in the company, if that makes sense.
Dr. Lauran Star: Yeah. I’ve worked with some phenomenal CEOs that, as their companies are growing, they still do the surprise pop into a manager’s meeting. Especially in the virtual environment or the leadership meeting, they become part of the inclu, advancing inclusion by creating. A de and I committee or council that oversees the culture.
I like to call it a culture committee instead of de and I, because we’re traumatized with the word diversity. I know some of you’re, every time I say it, you roll your eyes. I can feel it. And I understand that because we’ve really polarized it. But yeah, these are CEOs that, are now part of their culture committee, so they’re still having those touchpoints.
They’re building up employee resource groups where affinities can come together with their allies and openly and [00:28:00] safely discuss the problems that they’re facing. And, and you’ve got a funnel of communication that goes up to your culture committee to discuss so that we can address it so we hear you.
I think one of the most frustrating things as the company grows, your employees, the older employees, not so much the newer employees, but your older employees start feeling like, or tenured employees start feeling like they’re no longer being heard. And the easiest way to do that right is to, reach out and have these employee resource groups set up mentoring with the older employee, right?
Your more tenured employee employees, have them mentoring your new hires, coming on board, even in the virtual environment. And have those discussions, right? And that you can do that through, OD and l organizational development learning. You’ve got a mentorship program, you’ve got one touchpoint as the c e o, you’ve got a touchpoint.
You can touch that person and say, what are we [00:29:00] hearing? What’s going on? Where are they developing? Where are they struggling? And then be transparent about it. There’s nothing worse than GA gathering all this information and then sitting on. You have your engagement surveys, your employee engagement surveys should be doing those once a year.
You do that engagement survey. If you are a c e O of a growing business, you really should be addressing your employees about what you are reading in your engagement survey. Otherwise, you’re not going to get the truth. There’s a lot of things that c e O in a growing business can do to remain inclusive with their employees, especially in a virtual market because Yeah, the computer can go anywhere we go.
Now,
Amir Bormand: what do you say to the. We’re, when everyone’s now on some kind of, virtual, we’re all, I guess Zoom became synonymous during the pandemic. Everyone, let’s jump on Zoom. I love virtual. Zoom. [00:30:00] That’s, we’re gonna do the same thing we did on a Zoom, obviously.
On a Zoom Engagement’s. Harder to gauge. You can’t tell, if people’s cameras aren’t on that’s a negative. You can’t tell if they’re looking at you. They’re actually looking at their work screen or they’re doing something else that engagement, when you’re in a office where just sitting in a conference room, you could tell, you can’t pull out a phone and be swiping or whatever.
So how do obviously is the limitation with the tool, but how do you go about making sure that, as I’m listening to this inclusivity, the engagement is very important in each and every encounter. How do you make sure people are actually engaged in. Off doing something else, even though they’re supposed to be in this meeting with some
Dr. Lauran Star: people.
Yeah. That’s where again, inclusion, it takes just one person, it takes one employee at a time to, and inclusion I see hand in hand with engagement, right? If you’re of inclusive organization, you have an engaged organization. And that’s what the data shows. You empower your team and the way that you do that is, we just had our [00:31:00] inclusive meeting.
And then we discuss business. Maybe the next meeting we go, let’s come up with some guidelines. We believe, or, when we’re on this meeting together, we will be focused on this meeting only. We will keep our computers on. We will be actively engaged. Either through the chat or Right. We will come up with your guidelines for how these meetings, we’re gonna rotate facilitators, we’re gonna rotate the person that does the icebreaker.
We’re always going to have a developmental aspect or a whatever, guest or set up your meeting, set up your meeting. And then from there, come up with a word. And I’ve seen this, the organization I’m working with right now. They’re awesome at this and they have a word it’s pickle. And if somebody on the team is not enga, like you can and you can tell, right?
Cause computers are on. So I know if you’re looking [00:32:00] around, you are not paying attention. If you’re constantly looking down and looking up, you’re typing, they will ping each other and just throw the word pickle out. On Chat Pickle. That’s a good one. Pickle. Pickle. Pickle. And we’ve seen that engagement go through the roof now go through the roof.
Like at first they were like private messaging each other. Now they’re calling each other out right there in the team chat. Or the Zoom chat just saying, Hey Lauren Pickle. Everybody knows I was just busted. But there’s no hard feeling about it. There’s no oh my God. Pickle. I pickle.
It’s just a word, but it’s a funny word.
Amir Bormand: It’s almost as like you’re trying to, you’re trying to make sure like we understand. Being at home virtual, looking at your, tv, monitor, screen, laptop, whatever it is. Trying to stay engaged is different than all of us being around a conference. That there’s, we lose body language.
But I like this, I like the word pickle. [00:33:00] It is Hey, listen, snap out of it maybe right before you think you could, you can handle, the meaning and maybe, simultaneously to do something else, but Pickle brings it.
Dr. Lauran Star: Yeah, it pulls you back at, like, when somebody pings me and says Pickle, I’m like, oh crap.
Amir Bormand: There you go. You caught me. You got, Hey it’s a good, it’s a good reminder. It’s Hey, it’s a good, yeah. It’s not a, and I guess it depends if you as an organization, I think this goes back to a lot of what you’re saying is if you make that a, Hey, we understand that you might get distracted.
You’re at home, we get it. Yeah. Your kid might run in, it might distract you. Your wife might, or husband or her spouse might be gesturing in the corner. All those things can happen. Pickle is not that you’re in trouble. We’re not writing down how many pickles you got and demerit. But hey, listen, if you hear pickle, that means you need to refocus.
You’re not, you’re, we don’t have the best of you in the meeting, which I think is really
Dr. Lauran Star: interesting. Yeah. And it really has to be driven from the bottom up. So this is where your managers and leaders, cuz every team is unique. Every team is unique and [00:34:00] we don’t want our teams to become siloed. We talk about, pickle, you’re busted.
You’re no longer in the head space of the meeting. And that’s why I always encourage in that raw right in your, this is what we’re doing, these are the rules we’re going to play by. It’s always nice to invite an a guest in speak. The last three minutes, the last five what does finance do?
Scott, what exactly do you do in finance? And it can be anybody. Oh, hey, I’m, Hey, this is what I do if you need me there. Now we’re breaking down silos on top right? All of a sudden, right? This virtual world, because we have to have intent to engage and be inclusive, that intent is like tenfold now.
Now Scott, who normally I’d never bump into face-to-face, can join us because he’s sitting at home on his computer and has free time cuz he’s not driving into the office. So let’s get that scheduled in. [00:35:00] Pickle.
Amir Bormand: Pickle. I’m gonna steal that. I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I love Pickle. I love Pickle. It’s great.
It’s a great one. Let me ask you this, cause I. I think the one question I get a, I do get from people and it’s always about understanding even myself, I’ve always, I’ve asked other leaders, how do you run a one-on-one better to make sure it’s inclusive? Because the worst thing of the one-on-one it could happen is about the manager.
Talking about what that person sees, where virtual this, it’s one-on-ones are a little bit different than they were maybe even in person. Cause you lose that body language. If there was one thing that you’d want, like a manager, who’s, managing, individual contributors to be able to improve on those one-on-ones to help inclusivity, what would that one thing be
Dr. Lauran Star: keeping in mind?
Cameras are always on in a 1 0 1, always. Coaching, right? That, I mean that automatically when you’re coaching someone, it’s all about engagement. So managers ask more questions than telling[00:36:00] and iir, we have a generation coming in, right? Your millennials, even your Gen Zs that are used to being coached to figure out the problem.
If we just provide those two generations, the. They’re never gonna figure out how to create a solution. And coaching is all, it’s allowing your employee that’s sitting across from you, that space to take risk. We know these generation the millennials and Gen Zs aren’t huge risk takers. Now I’m letting you take risk.
How do you think we should solve that? Or, hey, you know what? Right when we’re giving feedback, like maybe I needed this report last week. I need to understand, rather than coming at that employee saying, Hey, why wasn’t it on my desk? I need to understand why this was late and what’s going on in your world so that we can better meet time requirements.
We, not you, we, [00:37:00] I’m part of that team. It’s all around coaching. Get better at coaching. And if you don’t, if you don’t. A coaching program in your organization? Reach out to me. I’ve got plenty that teach coaching programs and organizations. And coaching.
Amir Bormand: Coaching. I like that. I think that’s a and just on that note, I was gonna say thank you for thank you for being on and sharing.
I think a lot of these concepts are, Fragmented and different people have different views. I think. I think it’s really important to talk about the inclusivity piece. And I, the last thing you mentioned coaching. I think I think managers. They don’t always see their job as a coach. And especially, maybe younger, even manager, early stage career managers don’t see how impactful they can be, but I think that’s a great observation.
Dr. Lauran Star: That’s their job. We wanna coach our employees. We don’t wanna tell our employees that was the transactional business days. We wanna coach our employees so that they can create their own solutions. If you’re a manager and [00:38:00] you’re finding that your job is problem solving, Take a step back and start coaching around the problems because that’s not, your job, isn’t to solve problems.
That, that’s why we hire talented individuals, especially in engineering, right? To solve problems. You’ve gotta coach your people into how to solve a problem.
Amir Bormand: Lauren. Awesome. I was gonna say thank you for being on. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, this was awesome. If somebody wants to reach out to you, I know you mentioned you, you know the coaches, you know you have resources that could, for people.
What’s a good way of getting hold? You mentioned a lot of stuff and I’m sure somebody might be like, Hey, that’s a great idea. How do I, where do I start with that? Because it’s one thing to hear, the other one to start. How does somebody get in contact with you? So
Dr. Lauran Star: you can get in contact with me simply by just going to my website, dr loran starr.com.
Go right to my website. I also have a book out right now called Evidence-Based Inclusion. It’s time to Focus on the Right Needle. You can go to Amazon order that copy right there, but everything’s right there on my web website. Just go to my website, everything is there. [00:39:00] Okay.
Amir Bormand: I will definitely, we’ll definitely include in the show notes.
Obviously your website the link to the book cuz I think obviously it’d be a good read for a lot of people. But thank you for being on, thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed the conversation with you.
Dr. Lauran Star: This was awesome. Thanks for having me.
Amir Bormand: All right. That’s it for this episode.
We’ll be back again. Different guests, different topic. If you guys do wanna follow up and learn more, follow the resource links that we’re gonna provide. I think Lauren has a ton of wealth of information. So feel free to reach out to her. If you find the podcast useful share it with somebody else.
Give it a rating in whatever platform you’re listening to. That’s how we’ve been growing. So thank you for that. Until next time, thank you.